[quote:1s42sbmc]The tabloid article even says:
普段からバッシングの対象になりやすいバラエティ番組で活躍する人気お笑いタレントたちも
Rough translation: "As usual, popular stand-up comedians who play an active part in such variety shows become an easy target".
Between the lines translation: He’s still popular.[/quote:1s42sbmc]
Haha when you put it that way it certainly is easier to understand. I just think that they cop a rough deal at times and it’s not fair to them, though I do understand that they have to be prepared to accept this sort of stuff as high profile people. I mean, Yamasaki for example gets criticism saying he’s not funny at all and he should leave Gaki, when it is obvious he actually is meant to play that unfunny, bullied character and has shown he can make others laugh
[quote:1s42sbmc]For earlier examples of people being harsh towards Matsumoto, just pick anytime he released a movie. I read comments where they mocked his desire to become the next Kitano in film directing with stuff like ‘he has nowhere enough skill to do so and should just focus on becoming funny on TV again’. It was months ago so I can’t remember where but searching something like "松本人志 ビートたけし 面白くない" might get some results in that vein.[/quote:1s42sbmc]
Yeah I discussed this you and some others in this post: [url:1s42sbmc]http://www.gaki-no-tsukai.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5339[/url:1s42sbmc]
Very ironic and strange that foreign audiences are able to appreciate his works much more than his homeland.
[quote="Vatican":3aqml3x4]I mean, Yamasaki for example gets criticism saying he’s not funny at all and he should leave Gaki, when it is obvious he actually is meant to play that unfunny, bullied character and has shown he can make others laugh [/quote:3aqml3x4]
Yeah, that’s why I stopped reading comments. Back when I was looking for his past TV work from the 1990s to now, I had to trawl the internet heavily so I came across stuff like that too. I read a comment that Hosei should of kept studying psychology because he might do better at that than being a comedian (reminded me of comments about Harry Hill who quit being a doctor to become a comedian).
The running gag between Downtown and Hosei that he’s unfunny is hilarious and I love Matsumoto’s putdowns and Hamada’s berating of him, but yeah it shouldn’t be taken seriously. In early Downtown shows, before the running gag became more common they let their guard down more often and cracked up at his bizarre ways. They still do it now of course.
I think all the Gaki members get misunderstood because they’re so good at improvising that it seems like thats just how they are. Like Hamada with his sadist act despite being a very nice guy. Hosei’s got that smug arrogance act (e.g. picking fights, boasting etc.), despite being humble.
[quote:3aqml3x4]Very ironic and strange that foreign audiences are able to appreciate his works much more than his homeland.[/quote:3aqml3x4]
I guess it’s just because of his long history there, they expect certain things of him and put the bar far higher than Matsumoto could achieve even when trying his best. Abroad he’s an unknown figure so people decide about him based only on his movie work, not the decades of TV work he’s done before. I wonder if there’s any examples in the East? Simon Pegg is a comedian here in the UK who has gone on to produce many hit movies, but he was already screenwriting a few years into doing TV comedy so it can’t really compare.
The running gag between Downtown and Hosei that he’s unfunny is hilarious and I love Matsumoto’s putdowns and Hamada’s berating of him, but yeah it shouldn’t be taken seriously. In early Downtown shows, before the running gag became more common they let their guard down more often and cracked up at his bizarre ways. They still do it now of course.
I think all the Gaki members get misunderstood because they’re so good at improvising that it seems like thats just how they are. Like Hamada with his sadist act despite being a very nice guy. Hosei’s got that smug arrogance act (e.g. picking fights, boasting etc.), despite being humble.
[/quote:1yzdox07]
Yes! We had a bit of discussion on this in the chatbox some time back
The tv personas they built up are so convincing that some of the public think those are their real selves. I don’t deny that the personas are based on their real selves(look at the Trials series for stories), but the personas they show on tv are mostly exaggerated.
Can see how their tv personas evolve when watching from the old shows to the new shows.
Young Matsumoto’s persona was a character who kept a deadpan face no matter what silly lines he said, while young Hamada’s persona was somewhat wild and mischievous.
Hamada’s sadist/anger acts developed over time. In early times, his mask cracked easily. He then became able to keep the angry facade so violent and convincing, he could make people cry
He only does the overly violent sadist act on comedians(who are trained to handle such things) or people who can handle it.
For the usual talents/models/singers/actors/athletes, he uses words and head smacks.
One can really see a different side in the family vacation videos, the radio show ep he did with his son, the secret video the Akan Keisatsu staff took of him during a meeting in a restaurant.
Hosei’s tv persona is of "being arrogant even though he’s a unfunny comedian" as soudou said.
You can see how the other gaki members try to keep straight faces when Hosei does his antics. Most of the time they succeed, but sometimes the masks crack.
Also, some people think that Itao’s antics on gaki no tsukai reflects his true self , but the Itao episodes with "his wife" are just skits. Just like the "unreasonable DT" eps on Lincoln.
In the documentary "the professional" we can see that Hamada is more friendly than Matsumoto.
Mastumoto don’t talk to anyone. Hamada talk and spend time with the guests while Matsumoto stay alone and don’t talk to anyone.
In a Lincoln episode, where they are out and have to reach a restaurant by car (rally something), Matsumoto is very scared to leave the car and ask the way to a "normal" citizen. He really feel bad.
But Hamada is ok in gobugobu with Higashino, he don’t have any problem to walk in streets and talk to random peoples. I think Matsumoto would faint at his place.
I think Matsumoto is kinda "outside" of the enterteinment world, almost depressed by it. I don’t even know if he have real friends from the tv world, beside his longtime friend, the screenwriter.
I saw ‘‘The Professional’’ documentary, and I wonder why Matsumoto doesn’t like talking to other people when Hamada, which is the Massoquistic member, is very friendly with everyone? Maybe he doesn’t like people and he only talks to almost everybody when a camera is rolling.
[quote="solari":2zza1q9e]The tv personas they built up are so convincing that some of the public think those are their real selves. I don’t deny that the personas are based on their real selves(look at the Trials series for stories), but the personas they show on tv are mostly exaggerated.[/quote:2zza1q9e]
Yeah I think there’s probably some background to each of their acts, just so they can make it work, but it is wildly exaggerated for comedy. Or they just do a polar opposite of themselves, like "Tanaka’s breakdown act". In an early episode where actors replaced them, the one for Hosei just kept going "Sumimasen!!" a lot (politely apologizing for everything, even if it’s not his fault). Whenever Hosei got pranked on candid camera with people picking a fight with him, rather than fight back he’d just repeat "Sumimasen!!" over and over, so in reality he’s unlikely to pick fights.
Just my theory for 1 reason behind the arrogance gag:
[hide:2zza1q9e]Hosei mentioned on a talk show that when he first went solo in the early 90s he gained popularity (and valentines chocolates), but then he was called "hetare" (weak/coward) in a negative way and the public image suddenly switched from "cute & funny" to "lame & unfunny". He wasn't sure what to do, then he watched a show where a little pug dog was bouncing around angrily at a big St Bernard who simply stood there. He thought the pug dog was ridiculous and laughed at it wasting its time, then he had an epiphany. I'll be the underdog fighting against the odds to no avail for comedic effect!
The "hetare" became his shtick, and he got more work through it like the recent NMB48 DVD "hetare champion" special and popularity via VS Jimmy/Moriman. Of course Chono vs Hosei is the climax of that little dog vs big dog gag. I think of Chono as a big bulldog.
So whenever he's pretending to be tough, it's just the teachings of Pug Sensei
[quote:2zza1q9e]Young Matsumoto’s persona was a character who kept a deadpan face no matter what silly lines he said, while young Hamada’s persona was somewhat wild and mischievous. [/quote:2zza1q9e]
Hamada’s jumping jacks back then are so funny to watch considering how his character developed later.
Actually I don’t mind if they stop doing No laughing, as long as they keep making a 6 hours special each year. i’d love to see new batsus or new haunted inn or something like that. I’m afraid that they (and we) will start to get bored by it because it keeps being the exact same thing again and again.
[quote="Johnhk":2qpmzqym]Actually I don’t mind if they stop doing No laughing, as long as they keep making a 6 hours special each year. i’d love to see new batsus or new haunted inn or something like that. I’m afraid that they (and we) will start to get bored by it because it keeps being the exact same thing again and again.[/quote:2qpmzqym]
I don’t like the idea of getting bored about the batsus because that’s the principal part of the entire series I watch a lot. But it would be nice if they returned to the old way, when somebody lose a challenge, that person or them would be punished in a haunted hotel. Now it would be very good
[quote="VideogameDC":2f0xmnup][quote="Johnhk":2f0xmnup]Actually I don’t mind if they stop doing No laughing, as long as they keep making a 6 hours special each year. i’d love to see new batsus or new haunted inn or something like that. I’m afraid that they (and we) will start to get bored by it because it keeps being the exact same thing again and again.[/quote:2f0xmnup]
I don’t like the idea of getting bored about the batsus because that’s the principal part of the entire series I watch a lot. But it would be nice if they returned to the old way, when somebody lose a challenge, that person or them would be punished in a haunted hotel. Now it would be very good[/quote:2f0xmnup]
I agree cause it made more sense then. You lose a bet you get a batsu game…It doesn’t have to be no laughing. As long as it is funny.
With the ‘bets’ it wasn’t long before it became just games of luck with the "Russian Roulette" stuff. Perhaps once the New Years Specials could stand on their own there wasn’t as much need for excuses. But there are still mini-batsus during the year from losing the card games etc. I agree it’d be cool to see more of those.
I think the yearly specials will always be different to when it didn’t have a New Years Eve timeslot to compete with Kouhaku, but I don’t necessarily think that pulls it away from Matsumoto’s original idea for it. Hosei mentioned it was rare for celebrities from other genres of entertainment (e.g. actors) to be seen on variety shows (maybe it was seen as ‘beneath them’?) until Matsumoto thought of tipping that balance with the No Laughing series, having the entertainers being entertained. When they reveal who the staff managed to get as the A-Lister celebrity working to get the comedians to laugh, he still can’t quite believe it, "What are you doing on this show?? It can’t be the money" .
Maybe its also what keeps it afloat against the astronomically popular celebrity singer contest on the other channel. I won’t deny it, I only watch for the Gaki guys! Here celebrities are on every type of show imaginable to the point of overexposure, so the same concept would feel uninspired to me. But learning more does make me respect their ambition.
[quote="soudou":2gk6hhmd]With the ‘bets’ it wasn’t long before it became just games of luck with the "Russian Roulette" stuff. Perhaps once the New Years Specials could stand on their own there wasn’t as much need for excuses. But there are still mini-batsus during the year from losing the card games etc. I agree it’d be cool to see more of those.
I think the yearly specials will always be different to when it didn’t have a New Years Eve timeslot to compete with Kouhaku, but I don’t necessarily think that pulls it away from Matsumoto’s original idea for it. Hosei mentioned it was rare for celebrities from other genres of entertainment (e.g. actors) to be seen on variety shows (maybe it was seen as ‘beneath them’?) until Matsumoto thought of tipping that balance with the No Laughing series, having the entertainers being entertained. When they reveal who the staff managed to get as the A-Lister celebrity working to get the comedians to laugh, he still can’t quite believe it, "What are you doing on this show?? It can’t be the money" .
Maybe its also what keeps it afloat against the astronomically popular celebrity singer contest on the other channel. I won’t deny it, I only watch for the Gaki guys! Here celebrities are on every type of show imaginable to the point of overexposure, so the same concept would feel uninspired to me. But learning more does make me respect their ambition.[/quote:2gk6hhmd]
I just got somewhat a probably good idea. They should make music competitions where they invite big japanese musicians nad make them sing, and if someone loses, they receive a thai kick.
I think it would be better than Kohaku, they just have to convince the musicians to participate without complaining or something
[quote="VideogameDC":2ele57fg]I just got somewhat a probably good idea. They should make music competitions where they invite big japanese musicians nad make them sing, and if someone loses, they receive a thai kick.
I think it would be better than Kohaku, they just have to convince the musicians to participate without complaining or something[/quote:2ele57fg]
Haha, I would enjoy that. Though considering how Tanaka had to go around profusely apologising to everyone after kicking all those celebs and pop idols I guess it’d be a tough one to get rolling.
[quote="soudou":1l4m38t4][quote="VideogameDC":1l4m38t4]I just got somewhat a probably good idea. They should make music competitions where they invite big japanese musicians nad make them sing, and if someone loses, they receive a thai kick.
I think it would be better than Kohaku, they just have to convince the musicians to participate without complaining or something[/quote:1l4m38t4]
Haha, I would enjoy that. Though considering how Tanaka had to go around profusely apologising to everyone after kicking all those celebs and pop idols I guess it’d be a tough one to get rolling. [/quote:1l4m38t4]
Hey! How about an episode debur where every japanese idol Tanaka kicked appear on stage, staring angry all the time at Tanaka, so he can feel intimitated